Interview by Arun Dhanjal

Words by Naz Toorabally & Arun Dhanjal

With thanks to Ella Patenall for transcribing the interview

A&E doctor and musician Nishant Joshi is using his platform to tackle injustices head on from helping to organise Black Lives Matter protests to taking the UK government to court to ensure that healthcare workers received appropriate protective equipment (PPE) and risk assessments during the pandemic. Nishant plays bass in post-punk band The Palpitations and is now channelling his anger and activism into his latest project, KILL, THE ICON! - protest punk delving into the history of protest, anti-fascism, and activism with a satirical spin.

Today, we’re excited to exclusively premiere the music video for KILL, THE ICON!’s debut single ‘Buddhist Monk’. Watch it now!

Arun Dhanjal caught up with Nishant to chat about his activism and KILL, THE ICON!. Feeling the responsibility to speak out and take risks, in March 2020, Nishant publicly spoke out about the lack of adequate PPE in hospitals; he and his wife, Dr Meenal Viz, subsequently took the government to court. It was a long process to get the outcome they wanted and they could not have done it without the support of the public and their colleagues who helped keep the pressure on the government. However, their families expressed deep concerns over their journey even after winning the case, being vindicated, crowdfunding £80,000 to pay their lawyers, being recognised by the England football team for their efforts and Dr Viz appearing on the cover of Vogue. Of course, they didn’t take the government to court for their parents’ approval and his parents are incredibly proud that he is a doctor, but Nishant jokes that the “moral of the story is don't seek validation from Asian parents”. He’s definitely onto something there.

Arun and Nishant chat about the inspiration behind KILL, THE ICON!, their debut single ‘Buddhist Monk’ which is out now on all platforms and why the government is like an evil tortoise (yes, you read that right!).

What inspired you to start KILL, THE ICON!?

Before my daughter was born in July 2020 it was kind of a vacuum – it was sunny outside, good weather and what we could do was limited in terms of activities. I was still taking the government to court and dealing with lawyers and talking to politicians. I was learning so much about our society and the more I learnt about society the more angry I became. I really felt the anger had to be channeled somewhere or I was going to explode. So, KILL, THE ICON! is just pure anger and rage. I know I may not look like the most angry, rageful person right now in my floral shirt.

What inspired the name of the band?

I felt like what we were doing last year is something which is iconoclastic and I really wanted to explore things in a cultural way. The more I tried to fight the government, the more I realised that the legal way, the legitimate, the traditional way, the way they [the system] want you to fight them is part of the strategy. But, the other part was to actually persuade people from a cultural point of view as well, try and ensure society starts thinking about things which help people for example.

KILL, THE ICON! is basically a kamikaze project, like I just want to blow shit up sometimes. When we fought the government last year and it felt huge, trying to overturn a system which is basically impossible to do unless you reach that critical mass of followers, of people who really buy into your project, so with KILL, THE ICON! we’re trying to channel that anger into overturning that system.

If you imagine the system is like an evil tortoise, it moves really slowly and doesn't look your way when you say you need help and when you try to demand stuff from the evil tortoise, it goes back into its shell and says, “No, we’re closed today”. So what you have to do is overturn the tortoise and make it struggle on its back and then maybe when you flip it back over it kinda realises, “What just happened? Maybe I need to change my own behaviour”. Maybe the evil tortoise becomes a slightly less evil tortoise. The more you flip the tortoise… Maybe we should write a children’s book about dismantling the system by overturning the tortoise.

WE HAVE THE CATCHPHRASE, “DISMANTLE YOUR IDEOLOGY” AND THAT’S WHAT WE WANT PEOPLE TO DO. WE WANT PEOPLE TO REALLY THINK ABOUT WHY THEY THINK WHAT THEY DO.

Do you have a message you want to get across with KILL, THE ICON!?

What we’re trying to do with KILL, THE ICON! is shine a light on icons throughout history, people who have sacrificed themselves in the name of protest or whistleblowers who have put themselves on the line. It’s  quite subversive; we want people to dance along, mosh along, to songs which are quite tragic actually. They’re songs which are remembering people who contributed to culture but are often forgotten in day to day conversation. So trying to use that conversation to remember people who contributed so much. We have the catchphrase, “Dismantle your ideology” and that’s what we want people to do. We want people to really think about why they think what they do.

It's very obvious you're trying to do that through your new single ‘Buddhist Monk’ – why did you choose Thích Quảng Đức? It’s an iconic photo, for example it was used on Rage Against the Machine’s debut album.

Yeah it is so iconic. Everyone I speak to about it mentions Rage Against the Machine and I almost feel like that man shouldn't just be remembered just for being on the cover of a Rage Against the Machine album 30 years ago. So what were trying to do is make sure throughout that we’re telling the story of what he did, why he did it and hopefully we’re putting him front and centre and hopefully make people just like google him or ask people the question what made one man cover himself in petrol and burn himself alive, in the most meditative way possible – what makes someone do that? That's the main question I want people to think about.

Do you have a list of other icons for future singles?

Yes, definitely. We want to explore things through the lens of pop culture as well, ‘cause I think it's fun to tell different stories. Our next single is going to be about Anthony Bourdain.

I'm a massive Anthony Bourdain fan – his story is fascinating and tragic…

He's one of the celebrities, I guess, who I was genuinely upset about when I heard about him dying and it's always going to be this emblem of modern society as well – somebody who in theory had the single best job in the world travelling the world, universally not just liked but revered and loved by his peers and fans everywhere he went, it seemed like he got on with people. He ate the best food, drank the best drinks, best places, saw the sights and the sound everywhere. What makes a man like that give it all up and press stop on his life? And so it's kind of meant to be a eulogy, or some sort of remembrance to him and just an appreciation.

I can't wait to hear that. You have a satirical spin and are influenced by Tarantino – can you tell us a bit more about that and how that comes through?

The songs we’ve written and our live set as well, the songs that we've got up our sleeves, they take a really sardonic view on middle managers – the traffic wardens of society. I think a lot of offices and jobs have traffic wardens – not just the guys ticketing on the streets – just making life really difficult for everybody. And also like just addressing the system as well, having seen the undercarriage of the system last year, I feel like I have a good view and perspective of things and we have to find a way to communicate that to people.

One of our next singles is called ‘Protect the Brand’ which is about doing what you can to save your job and stepping over everyone else in the office. I definitely found that last year, even as a doctor, I had middle managers trying to reduce me to nothing and that itself has created a lot of lifelong anger. I will always have it in for those people who looked at me and saw me as disposable, who looked at doctors as disposable, people who saw doctors and nurses die and said, “Well tough luck”. Those people who haven't seen the front line but make decisions, the ones who are disconnected with the real genuine grief, trauma and the life and death decisions.

How does practising medicine and playing music go hand in hand, besides channeling the things you find angering and frustrating in your job and life? Do they go hand in hand or are they quite separate for you?

It depends which bits – I think at its best, playing gigs and having people listen to your music is a good way of decompressing, and songwriting as well. It can be a stressful job. It helps you organise your thoughts. You have to go from different modes as well, you can't be in doctor mode 24/7, it will kill you. 

What kind of artists have inspired KILL, THE ICON! or even your process of writing these latest tracks?

I always really liked the Dead Kennedys – they’re super satirical. They were obviously satirical and trying to poke fun at stuff, and we’re trying to hide it a bit more and hopefully making it a little less obvious, so you have to undercover it, so maybe after the first few listens you’ll really understand what we're trying to say. And in terms of the idea of having a duo, there's a band called JOHN who just released their third album – they're really, really good guys who believe in making society a better place. When you find a band who aligns with your own ideology it enhances your enjoyment. 

There's a lot of “lad rock” narratives being pushed forward in the music industry and KILL, THE ICON  is pushing against that, could you elaborate on your thoughts around this?

Well, I don't bear any specific ill will to anyone who has got a guitar and started… power to you. But the way that the industry uses those people, for example for the past 10 years, a lot of the bands coming though have been nothing more than modified like Kasabian cover bands. There's some nice riffs from time to time but it's the industry's willingness to put them above people who stand for something. Kasabian cover bands were always quick to post a black square on Instagram last year but what else did they do? Did they promote artists from POC backgrounds? Sometimes it boils down to what's trendy at the time.

Some bands did reach out to us – I’m not saying every band in the world should have reached out to us, but there were definitely some major industry players who were aware of us [during and after we took the government to court]. Can I give a shout out to a band called Luna Rosa from Northampton? They’re really kind – the lead singer, Rory, sent me a postcard in the middle of everything and it said, “Don't let the bastards get you down”. 

MY DAD’S REALLY BIG INTO SOUL AND BLUES MUSIC, SO IT’S NOT LIKE HE IS ANTI-MUSIC, HE ENJOYS MUSIC, JUST NOT WHEN I'M PLAYING. [MY PARENTS] ARE PROBABLY WORRIED IT'S A DISTRACTION FROM THE MAIN PRIORITIES OF TAKING CARE OF MY FAMILY – THEY ALWAYS ASK ME IF IT IS BRINGING IN ANY MONEY.

You mentioned earlier that your parents are happy that you’re a doctor, but how do they see your musical endeavours?

Happy I'm a doctor is probably a stretch, I think they’re content or not offended by that. I think once – if I’m ever able to buy my own house, I think that will go a long way. I've got a small family, so I've ticked the boxes of getting married and having a kid. I don't want this to be like a case of saying my parents will never be happy with me ‘cause I'm sure they say nice things when I'm not there, but they don't want me to get too carried away. It's fair to say they don't quite get the music stuff. My dad’s really big into soul and blues music, so it’s not like he is anti-music, he enjoys music, just not when I'm playing.

That’s such a common narrative I’ve heard from so many South Asians of their families' attitudes to music. The most common answer is, “I don’t think they really get it”.

They're probably worried it's [music] a distraction from the main priorities of taking care of my family – they always ask me if it is bringing in any money.

Before we end off, I wanted to ask about the use of flower imagery for the ‘Buddhist Monk’ artwork. What was the inspiration behind that?

I think for the imagery of the ‘Buddhist Monk’ cover, instead of fire we created this motif where he's almost tending to flowers rather than being burned alive. I think that contrast of knowing it's supposed to be a picture of a guy who burned alive actually tending to flowers with people in the background looking horrified at a buddhist monk surrounded by flowers, I just wanted to create that contrast. And in the world that were trying to create, we are trying to create a disparity, a parallel universe where all the songs are linked and the characters that we’re creating will appear in different songs from time to time as well, so I think to add that continuity, we really liked the idea of having flowers in the eyes ‘cause on some level it anonymises you and I just wanted to have a consistent tone. With flowers in the eyes, it means that anybody could be that icon.

When is your next gig?

We’re hoping to get a run of gigs early next year, but we’ll see – and hopefully the same with The Palpitations. 

And do you have plans to release an EP at some point?

Maybe, we’ll see how it goes. KILL, THE ICON!, as I've said, is very kamikaze and I'm very prepared for it to fail. If it doesn't pick up momentum, I can live with that. I'm happy with what we’re doing. We’ve got a couple more singles coming soon. The reaction so far has genuinely blown me away. There's been a lot of interest, so hopefully we'll get some recognition from it. Maybe the same radio stations that are playing Kasabian cover bands will play us *laughs*.

‘Buddhist Monk’ by KILL, THE ICON! is out now on all streaming platforms. To stay up to date on their upcoming gigs and new releases, give them a follow on Twitter and/or Instagram.